Linux running on a S1MP3?

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Linux running on a S1MP3?

Postby LKRaider » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:00 pm

So, we all know linux can run on pretty much anything that can do computations (I'm still waiting linux to run on my abacus tho), but would it be able to run on a s1mp3?

Ignore the lack of a keyboard for a moment, and let's take this from the "fun-factor" point-of-view.

I don't know the specs of the s1mp3 hardware so what I'm saying here may indeed be impossible, but what if we could get a kernel running on it? I image we could then easily personalize the players to work any way we wanted!
Open up HTML pages on our MP4 units!
Play OGG music, and other file formats!
Connect several s1mp3's to make a processing cluster! :lol: :wink:

The lower spec linux I could find was UZIX v1.0, used in MSX computers.

It would be fun if this would work. Any thoughts or facts if it is indeed possible or impossible? :)
My MP4 player specs:
[url=http://forum.s1mp3.org/viewtopic.php?t=648]Shuray Japan - 256 Mb Memory
HJT H85-20MTV - REV:0.2B - 2005.03-12-Z[/url]
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Postby wladston » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:01 am

LKRaider,

Indeed, this would be VERY fun ... The best would be to run apache on s1mp3!! 8) s1mp3 - a webserver wherever u go! lol

I think that it should be possible to run a hevily moded uzix ....

It would be interesting to send such question to the sourceforge maillist ... are you going to send ?
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Postby LKRaider » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:41 am

Hah! that watch kicks ass! Too bad it was discontinued

I think something like a webbrowser would be cool (something like links, but even lighter), simply to display (standard) formated text.

And playing games would be a plus too! :)


And a distributed network of meshed s1mp3s could be not too far in the future :wink: heheh


@wladston: oh, yup, I'll post on the mailing list then : )
My MP4 player specs:
[url=http://forum.s1mp3.org/viewtopic.php?t=648]Shuray Japan - 256 Mb Memory
HJT H85-20MTV - REV:0.2B - 2005.03-12-Z[/url]
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Postby wladston » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:55 am

thanks! I hope the discussion follows ...
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Postby sirius » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:05 pm

My opinion:
It's quite powerfull device, even if we look at those 4 gHz computers, but those are simply a dragons, and the software is not well optimized. So our s1mp3 is capable of running some software on it, this software just need to be written and it's only a matter of time. I'm also not sure if that "linux" will actually have something familiar to his older brother known from pc, but.... who knows... ;)

As for the beginning we need a stable and powerfull core, with ability to run new added scripts. Then there is a short way to add stuff like mp3 decoder, mpeg decoder, and more (maybe even to run that bloody apache :P).

So...let's start with the core- specs are out, processor structure is out, emulators as well...
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Postby wladston » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:10 am

sirius,

you are invited to know our development area.

http://www.s1mp3.org/wiki/index.php/Dev:Main

please, get in touch with us!!

Do you have any free time to work with us ? And what is your programming experience ?
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Postby sirius » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:19 pm

thanks for inviting me.
hymm- my experience isn't quite big, especially in core writing (low level programming) and specially I'm nobody if it goes about Linux; unfortunately.
I've worked in Visual Basic for some time (4 years or so), didn't write anything for few months now, and started learning c++.

Anyway I have some free time every day, and I can manage some more experience in low-level for s1mp3. Just few days for basics, and we will see, what can be done together ;)

ps. I can do some graphics- still making nice theme to put on this site, or developers UI area :)
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Postby wladston » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:38 am

Okay!

If you can, get on our irc channel!

Also, any help is appreciated - and there are lots of different areas where you can apply.

Take a look here : http://www.s1mp3.org/wiki/index.php/User_interface

See ya ;)
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Postby sirius » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:47 pm

heh...actually I don't use irc..
but yeah maybe that's a good idea. just give some link to your channel, and I will logon some day ;)

I'm seriously thinking about interface- I'm sure it's 50% of success in having really great player. and one thing again- is it worth doing a linux port, or better to have our own os? from experience- doing port, and adopting sotware gets even more work, than doing it form the very begginning ;)

but yes- probably irc is better for such threads. give me some hints about irc; we in poland use some other softs to comunicate with each other :P

and ps.- what with other developers? aren't they over-worked; are they? ;) and it's not that big team, which we need to achieve something big ;)
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Postby wladston » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:18 am

sirius.

you can get on irc via our web based client : http://www.s1mp3.org/pjirc/

i don't know if a linux port would be bossible ... what are the minumum requirements for a linux kernel + an media player to run ? I think the s1mp3 hardware does not meet it ...

The developers aren't full of work .. to tell the true, we need a todo list for people to work on ...
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Postby sirius » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:08 pm

still in subject "linux on s1mp3"
my small investigation comes out with this data:

our s1mp3 is 20MHz slower than iPod nano, which comes with ~80MHz dual ARM 7TDMI type processor. here is a place for thinking about- is it worth getting linux on s1mp3? with our processor at full speed we get battery life time about 3 hours. it's not enough...

next thing is that bloody processor. unfortunatly we've got atj2051 which is not very powerfull device- 24 bit, ~60MHz processor with z80 core. not sure if difference betwen this one and arm one is really a hughe 20MHz, coz they are totally different structures.

and here we got the last problem- different structure/core. linux is ported on arm processor devices, since those first pocket-pc's reached "cheap" end user market- so it is about 7 years(?). i remember arm processors to be very flexible and popular, while that atj2051 surely is pain in ass to do something good on this.


because of all these issues (and probably more, which i didn't see at a while) i think it's not worth to port linux on s1mp3. just think about UZIX mentioned by LKRaider. UZIX is ugly, awfull even... interface that we have now is prettier from that UZIX. but (hopefully there is always that "but" ;) ) we can write our own OS. yes, i know- our own OS means smaller choice of apps, coz WE need to write them... i don't even know how to write mp3 decoder on that z80 structure, and what about vobis (ogg), wma and those audio-video decoders? it's quite a bit out of reach for us i think. it's quite easy to get an arm compilation of most codes, but not z80... it will be VERY hard, but works can be shared betwen developers to make it easier. i have got some ideas about how to make our OS structure.

first (as i said before) we need a fast core- just a translator of commands from higher layers of OS to low-level z80 assembly language. core must consist of memmory adressing and access. also "peripherals" (radio, keys, screen) should go there. later we need "higher-level" with some simple commands, to make writing apps easy, and make simple user able to use it too, without special knowledge. this will be language we will be writing our apps in. then "just" write the GUI (which will be the best part, and the most artistic work of all).

just to add- core should be bouild of "parts" started by loader, and let's say- "glued" together. this make easier to just edit small part of OS without making a new compile. so the settings should be kept in small hext/pure text files, or scipts, for future changes. for an example- main music player app, that plays music. it has an equalizer (yeah, i know- for now it's not working- those are only images; there could be anything) which should work right in our OS. now, if we want to change it's look we need to mess with whole OS. now imagine having equalizer as a separate executable script, that runs together with main player GUI inside "frame" (VB developers will know, what i'm thinking about). so- than we have possibility to easily edit a small part; which makes developing process easier, and enables whole palete of theming a player with different GUI's.

and that's for now; i've got everything in my head, i think it's possible, however quite difficult. i can see experinced processor-dependent-software writers, i can see people who can do all these. i really would like to help, but i cannot do everything, and no one does. so first- as wladston said- we need a todo list. without this we can only sit and think/speak about it, and never do a thing.

to wladston- what hour are you gathering at your irc channel? ps- also give me an GMT position, coz we are from different regions of the world, and yours 5 PM can be mine 1 PM ;)

write what you think about: /LINUX port/ VS /our own OS/
also we need a comment of future core writers, they probably will know which will be easier and more possible to achieve.

(hope you like all that looooooong stuff i wrote ;) )
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Postby wladston » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:25 pm

sirius,

Your post is very interesting!!

may i ask you to please post it on the mail list ?? You would get comments from the coders at the proect...

the url is list.s1mp3.org

the mail list is the place where the development talk is taken, apart from the irc ...

time here is gmt -3 ... anyways, these days. I'm full of university stuff, so I'm not getting that frequent on the channel.

i think also that porting a linux app is an overkill!

post it on the list, so we all can talk about the ideas you proposed!

Thanks for the post and see ya ;)
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Postby sirius » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:15 am

You mean to send this to all the list members/devs? yay, i'm scared ;) ok, i'll subscribe out there and send it, if that's what you mean (s1mp3-dev < At > s1mp3.org??).

i'm gmt+1; so we got 4 hours of difference. i'll keep that in mind.

Edit Ian_Hawdon: Just protecting out devel list from spam :D
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Postby wladston » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:23 pm

yeah!! Please, go ahead!!! No need to be scared, the devs out there are friendly :)

See you later!
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Postby sirius » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:43 pm

yes, different boots for deifferent mashines should be a good one, but frankly saing it's our goal to write something a bit more independent. i mean- yes chips differ in each other model, but structure is still the same, and till we don't use some type-specific commands, we can make something more flexible. just look on memmory issue. we need from here a boot that detects flash size.

actually i don't think that that differences make any difference/probs with making new OS. but we need to ask more experinced devs about different chips (as for now 3 types reaported, yes? and for screens? maybe we need to build OS for each kind of players- for nano clones, for big-screen nano clones, for ones with big-screen and a speaker; i'm not sure, but Linux for real nano is also one of versions- there is one for those bigger nano's with hard drives, and for color, mono and other kind iPods)
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